Suspension of Standing and Sessional Orders: Order of Business

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Hon. DON HARWIN [11.06 a.m.]: I move:

That standing and sessional orders be suspended to allow a motion to be moved forthwith that Private Members’ Business item No. 273 outside the Order of Precedence, relating to the Australian Armed Forces, be called on forthwith.

The Hon. Charlie Lynn, who is seeking to move the motion, will outline the case for urgency.

The Hon. CHARLIE LYNN [11.07 a.m.]: This matter is urgent because members of the 2nd Commando Regiment at Holsworthy are training for active service in Afghanistan. We in this Parliament are their elected representatives and we are part of a political system that is sending them to Afghanistan to fight on our behalf in the war against terror. They are to fight a fanatical enemy that does not subscribe to any humane conventions of war—

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Point of order: The Hon. Charlie Lynn knows full well that he should be establishing why this matter is more urgent than any other matter on the Notice Paper. He should not be debating the substantive motion.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I remind the Hon. Charlie Lynn that at this stage of the debate he should confine his remarks to why this matter is more urgent than other matters on the Notice Paper.

The Hon. CHARLIE LYNN: I am outlining that issue. This is not part of the substantive debate. The Hon. Lynda Voltz should know that the troops we are about to send off require the most intense physical, technical and psychological training, and will be required to make instinctive split-second decisions—

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Point of order: The member knows full well—

The Hon. Duncan Gay: This is frivolous and it is just wasting time.

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Both members know full well that they are required to establish why this matter is more urgent than any other matter on the Notice Paper. The Hon. Charlie Lynn must establish why his motion is urgent.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I uphold the point of order and remind the Hon. Charlie Lynn that at this stage he must speak to the issue of urgency only.

The Hon. CHARLIE LYNN: A recent High Court decision made the Australian Military Court unconstitutional. Recently soldiers were charged with manslaughter.

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Point of order: As the Hon. Charlie Lynn knows full well, currently we are debating why this matter—

The Hon. Rick Colless: Give him a chance and listen to what he has to say.

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Opposition members can dog whistle as much as they like, but the Hon. Charlie Lynn must establish why his matter is more urgent than any other matter on the Notice Paper.

The Hon. Marie Ficarra: Show the veterans what you really think about them and vote against the motion.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I will place members on calls to order if they continue to interject. All members are wasting the time available to the Hon. Charlie Lynn. However, I remind the member with the call that he must confine his remarks to urgency.

The Hon. CHARLIE LYNN: This motion is urgent because the historic decision to charge our troops with manslaughter has had a devastating impact on the morale of our combat troops and could cause them—

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Point of order: Madam President, I do not know why the Hon. Charlie Lynn continues to flout your rulings on urgency. The Hon. Charlie Lynn must establish why this matter is more urgent than other matters on the Notice Paper; he should not debate the substantive motion.

The Hon. Duncan Gay: To the point of order: Madam President, sooner or later you must rule that these are vexatious points of order. As soon as the Hon. Charlie Lynn says three words the Hon. Lynda Voltz takes a point of order and wastes his time. She should be prevented from taking vexatious points of orders.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I uphold the point of order because the Hon. Charlie Lynn is talking to the substantive motion. If the member confines his remarks to why the matter is more urgent than other matters on the Notice Paper,he will be completely in order.

The Hon. CHARLIE LYNN: The matter is urgent because a system that causes soldiers in combat to hesitate for a split second means that they will die. The Hon. Lynda Voltz should know that. As we know, the enemy is within.

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Point of order: I again ask that the Hon. Charlie Lynn confine his comments to why this matter is more urgent than other matters on the Notice Paper. He should not speak to the substantive motion.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I uphold the point of order and ask the Hon. Charlie Lynn to confine his remarks to urgency at this stage.

The Hon. CHARLIE LYNN: This matter is urgent because it involves the lives of Australian troops on combat duty in Afghanistan. That is why it is urgent. It is obvious that the Hon. Lynda Voltz and her left-wing colleagues could not give a damn about them. They are an absolute disgrace. If they are not concerned about the lives of our troops in Afghanistan on combat duty, I do not want to hear a motion about our troops from that side ever again and I never want to see them at a military funeral. They are a disgrace.

The Hon. Greg Donnelly: Point of order: The Hon. Charlie Lynn is launching into abuse.

The Hon. Duncan Gay: You brought it on yourselves.

The Hon. Catherine Cusack: Yes, you asked for it.

The Hon. Greg Donnelly: No, we did not ask for it at all. To have this debate descend into abuse is unacceptable.

The Hon. CHARLIE LYNN: Tell that to the RSL, the ex-services organisation with whom I am about to meet.

The PRESIDENT: Order! All members will be silent. I uphold the point of order. The comments did not relate to urgency. As all members know, when a member is seeking contingency to have a matter dealt with he or she must confine his or her remarks to why the matter is more urgent than other matters on the Notice Paper and why it should be given precedence over all other matters. At this stage in the debate that has not occurred.

The Hon. CHARLIE LYNN: I am sure they will all get a Christmas card from the Taliban this year. They deserve it.

The Hon. RICK COLLESS [11.13 a.m.]: This motion should be debated as a matter of urgency because these soldiers are facing a court martial for undertaking their duties, as they are required to do as members of the Australian Military Forces. That is why this matter is urgent.

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Point of order—

The PRESIDENT: Order! As the Hon. Rick Colless has finished his contribution, the Hon. Lynda Voltz does not need to speak to the point of order.

The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ [11.13 a.m.]: I speak against urgency. The matter that the Hon. Charlie Lynn refers to is a Federal Government issue.

The Hon. Catherine Cusack: You have to speak on urgency, Lynda.

The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ: The House has a number of other matters—

The Hon. Catherine Cusack: What has that got to do with it?

The Hon. Rick Colless: Point of order—

The PRESIDENT: Order! I warn the Hon. Catherine Cusack that if she continues to interject, she will be placed on a call to order. What is the point of order?

The Hon. Rick Colless: As the Hon. Lynda Voltz well knows, she has to justify why this matter is not urgent. She was speaking to the substantive motion.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I remind the Hon. Lynda Voltz that she must confine her comments to why she believes the motion is not urgent.

The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ: The matter is not urgent. A number of other matters are on the Notice Paper that members have waited a long time to discuss, such as Chaffey Dam. The matter is not urgent because debate is currently taking place in the Federal Parliament on the Afghanistan issue. It is not urgent because this House has to deal with State issues, not Federal issues that are currently being debated in the Federal Parliament. I oppose urgency.

Mr DAVID SHOEBRIDGE [11.15 a.m.]: I speak against urgency. This motion is not urgent. It is a matter of urgency that we as a Parliament commit to our traditional values of rule of law, including how we deal with military prosecutions.

Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE [11.15 a.m.]: This matter is urgent. This motion does not relate to the same issues that are currently being debated in the Federal Parliament. This motion focuses on the three Australian commandos who are facing prosecution, which is causing great concern to their families, as well as, obviously, the three soldiers concerned. This matter should be dealt with in the House today.

Dr JOHN KAYE [11.16 a.m.]: As I understand it, the argument for urgency is that a military court martial is being conducted.

The Hon. Duncan Gay: How would you know? The Hon. Charlie Lynn was not given a chance to state it.

Dr JOHN KAYE: As I understand it, the Opposition’s argument is that a military tribunal—

The Hon. Duncan Gay: The Labor Party—

Dr JOHN KAYE: The Deputy Leader of the Opposition will have an opportunity to speak, but I want to complete my sentence. My understanding is that the argument for urgency is that a military court martial has been convened in relation to three soldiers who have been accused of manslaughter in Afghanistan.

Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile: The Hon. Charlie Lynn did not explain that; he was stopped from doing so.

The Hon. Charlie Lynn: I was not allowed to say it.

Dr JOHN KAYE: I just said it for you. Let me speak on the urgency of this matter.

The Hon. Rick Colless: Dr John Kaye is talking to the substantive motion. The Hon. Lynda Voltz should take a point of order.

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Not one Opposition member got up.

The Hon. Rick Colless: You are a traitor.

The PRESIDENT: Order! All members will cease interjecting. Dr John Kaye will continue.

Dr JOHN KAYE: I cannot accept that argument for urgency, specifically because there is a military inquiry into the issue.

The Hon. Duncan Gay: Point of order: I understand the point that Dr John Kaye is trying to make. I believe he is doing the right thing. The problem is that he is being allowed to make a point and rebut an argument that was never allowed to be put on the parliamentary record. It is grossly unfair to allow him to rebut statements that the Hon. Charlie Lynn was not allowed to make.

Dr JOHN KAYE: To the point of order: The Deputy Leader of the Opposition is seeking to exclude me from the debate because of what happened prior to my speaking. He is seeking to take away my right to free speech.

The PRESIDENT: Order! So long as the member is speaking about why he believes the matter is or is not urgent his comments are in order.

Dr JOHN KAYE: The matter is not urgent specifically because a military court martial is occurring. As a Parliament we should respect the process of that military court martial. The matter may become urgent after that court martial has been conducted. I remind the House that a Coalition Government in Canberra set up the current system.

The Hon. Lynda Voltz: Point of order: On matters of urgency, members must discuss why a matter is more urgent than other business on the Notice Paper. I confined my comments specifically to that debate, and other members should do so as well.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I remind Dr John Kaye he should address urgency.

Dr JOHN KAYE: I have said what I want to say, that is, this matter is not urgent specifically because the substance of the matter refers to a military court and that military court should be able to operate. That military court was agreed to by both parties in the Federal Parliament.

The Hon. JOHN AJAKA [11.20 a.m.]: I speak in support of the motion to suspend standing and sessional orders. This is the first time in my time in this House that I have spoken in debate on a motion of this nature. I am shocked that some members do not believe this matter should be debated urgently. Clearly, this matter is more urgent than other matters that are currently before the House. This matter will affect the performance of our soldiers in the field today—this minute. Any delay each and every day may result in a death or in some other form of tragedy. Anyone who says that this motion should be deferred until after the court martial fails to realise that its whole purpose is to debate the matter before the court martial takes place. I am disappointed that some members are arguing against urgency in this matter.

Question—That the motion be agreed to—put.

The House divided.

Ayes, 17

Mr Ajaka

Mr Borsak

Mr Brown

Mr Clarke

Ms Cusack

Ms Ficarra

Mr Gay

Mr Khan

Mr Lynn

Mr Mason-Cox

Reverend Dr Moyes

Reverend Nile

Ms Parker

Mrs Pavey

Mr Pearce

Tellers,

Mr Colless

Mr Harwin

Noes, 20

Mr Catanzariti

Mr Cohen

Ms Cotsis

Ms Faehrmann

Ms Griffin

Mr Hatzistergos

Dr Kaye

Mr Moselmane

Mr Obeid

Mr Primrose

Ms Robertson

Mr Robertson

Mr Roozendaal

Ms Sharpe

Mr Shoebridge

Mr Veitch

Mr West

Ms Westwood

Tellers,

Mr Donnelly

Ms Voltz

Pairs

Mr Gallacher

Miss Gardiner

Mr Foley

Mr Kelly

Question resolved in the negative.

Motion negatived.