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	<title>Comments on: Kokoda Trail Livelihood Study</title>
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	<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/</link>
	<description>The Kokoda Track Experience</description>
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		<title>By: Gladbach</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-5110</link>
		<dc:creator>Gladbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 08:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>G&#039;day Charlie,

There are a lot of good points in here but I don&#039;t know why people want to trek and add all of these comforts.

I also don&#039;t know if we want to make the track as commercial as other parts of the world (Everest, Nepal etc). A large part of the appeal is getting to knwo the locals for who they are. Unfortunately as westerners we view success and happiness as being achieved by westernising the other cultures we come in contact with.

I have seen this in Bougainville, East Timor, the Middle East, Nepal etc etc.

If the local population is not westernised and thinking commercially then we feel sorry for them and feel the need to change them.

It&#039;s a real shame as many cultures are happier before we force this change and increasingly we see this change being pushed onto the PNG population.

Tread softly, assist where required and leave only footsteps. Do not force change to our way of life. 

Just my opinion.

Look forward to catching up again soon mate.

Cheers,

Glenn Azar</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G&#8217;day Charlie,</p>
<p>There are a lot of good points in here but I don&#8217;t know why people want to trek and add all of these comforts.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t know if we want to make the track as commercial as other parts of the world (Everest, Nepal etc). A large part of the appeal is getting to knwo the locals for who they are. Unfortunately as westerners we view success and happiness as being achieved by westernising the other cultures we come in contact with.</p>
<p>I have seen this in Bougainville, East Timor, the Middle East, Nepal etc etc.</p>
<p>If the local population is not westernised and thinking commercially then we feel sorry for them and feel the need to change them.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a real shame as many cultures are happier before we force this change and increasingly we see this change being pushed onto the PNG population.</p>
<p>Tread softly, assist where required and leave only footsteps. Do not force change to our way of life. </p>
<p>Just my opinion.</p>
<p>Look forward to catching up again soon mate.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Glenn Azar</p>
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		<title>By: certified accountants</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-4594</link>
		<dc:creator>certified accountants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/#comment-4594</guid>
		<description>Hi Charlie&#039;
Im terribly imprest by all the preceding comments but Damien Griffin &amp; John Nalder sum up my thoughts best. Doing it tough is the whole point of the trip in my book, to get some idea of what our troops did in 42.
A carved stick would be great - I still have my plain old one from 04, &amp; fresh fruit is always welcome, but Im not too sure about the other stuff.
Keep up the good work Charlie
Cheers , Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Charlie&#8217;<br />
Im terribly imprest by all the preceding comments but Damien Griffin &amp; John Nalder sum up my thoughts best. Doing it tough is the whole point of the trip in my book, to get some idea of what our troops did in 42.<br />
A carved stick would be great &#8211; I still have my plain old one from 04, &amp; fresh fruit is always welcome, but Im not too sure about the other stuff.<br />
Keep up the good work Charlie<br />
Cheers , Tim</p>
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		<title>By: maxine wain</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-1366</link>
		<dc:creator>maxine wain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 11:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/#comment-1366</guid>
		<description>dear charlie i did the track in august 07 one of the reasons for doing the track was trying to understand the hardship of what our soldiers went through so not having hot showers, dry clothes is part of that. The idea of paying just that bit extra for the privelege staying in villages along the track, for local fruit or pole carvings seems logical to me. I left whatever medical supplies i had leftover at the hospital in kokoda. The idea of locals selling cans of soft drink and twisties was great to see at some stops. The idea of scones and jam, hot showers at every stop ,someone washing and drying my clothes thats not what the track is for, as my trek leader simon hart would say get a can of harden up. Regards maxine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dear charlie i did the track in august 07 one of the reasons for doing the track was trying to understand the hardship of what our soldiers went through so not having hot showers, dry clothes is part of that. The idea of paying just that bit extra for the privelege staying in villages along the track, for local fruit or pole carvings seems logical to me. I left whatever medical supplies i had leftover at the hospital in kokoda. The idea of locals selling cans of soft drink and twisties was great to see at some stops. The idea of scones and jam, hot showers at every stop ,someone washing and drying my clothes thats not what the track is for, as my trek leader simon hart would say get a can of harden up. Regards maxine</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Townsend</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-1316</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Townsend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/#comment-1316</guid>
		<description>Hi Charlie,
I have recently completed AK910 K-O, a truly memorable experience which I believe, along with some wonderful advice from Chad and Bernie will make me a better man.

Our group was the first to utilise the clothes washing service at Efogi, which I believe was of great benefit not only for us trekkers but also for the Villagers as well. The clothes came back slightly damp but more importantly, clean! I would encourage potential trekkers to consider supporting the communities along the trek by taking advantage of the service offered. The cost was 5$ Kina for Shirts/ trousers, $2 Kina Socks/Hankies etc.

The idea put forward by others where trekkers could purchase walking sticks pre-carved at the end of the trek has merit in terms of transport but, knowing that your porter has carved a personalised stick means so much and adds meaning once you get it home.

Once again, thank you Adventure Kokoda, Chad and Bernie for a wonderful journey not only into the past and present, but also into ones own character. I am proud to have met you and to call you friend.

Regards, Ian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Charlie,<br />
I have recently completed AK910 K-O, a truly memorable experience which I believe, along with some wonderful advice from Chad and Bernie will make me a better man.</p>
<p>Our group was the first to utilise the clothes washing service at Efogi, which I believe was of great benefit not only for us trekkers but also for the Villagers as well. The clothes came back slightly damp but more importantly, clean! I would encourage potential trekkers to consider supporting the communities along the trek by taking advantage of the service offered. The cost was 5$ Kina for Shirts/ trousers, $2 Kina Socks/Hankies etc.</p>
<p>The idea put forward by others where trekkers could purchase walking sticks pre-carved at the end of the trek has merit in terms of transport but, knowing that your porter has carved a personalised stick means so much and adds meaning once you get it home.</p>
<p>Once again, thank you Adventure Kokoda, Chad and Bernie for a wonderful journey not only into the past and present, but also into ones own character. I am proud to have met you and to call you friend.</p>
<p>Regards, Ian.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Grace</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-1302</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/#comment-1302</guid>
		<description>Charlie and the crew

I just finished the walk with Ron Beattie (our legend and what knowledge he has - made for a great trek).

I fully support the concepts of cleaning and food being available.  The sticks I liked coming from my porter (on a subcontract basis) as it reminds me of him.  They could set up a stall at both ends but still give porters the chance of making a few extra dollars (expecially for Ron who spend 2 hours getting thorugh customs with all of his - I guess they thought he was from a logging company doing a recon mission).

As for comforts - no way.  I did this trek to experience the hardship, so no creature comforts for the trekkers (and I was sick for 3 days).  For the locals different story, if we can provide better building material, medicine etc through grants or charity runs then that is great and should be done - I might even have another go - what am I saying!

Another thought is the charitable fund being set up - a great idea.  I wanted to give my boots but needed them to get home.  If there was some way that I could buy something before I left and give it to my porter, his family etc then that would be acceptable (in this way it is still fresh in your mind) otherwise $$ to a charity is the go.

Col Grace - 910A</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie and the crew</p>
<p>I just finished the walk with Ron Beattie (our legend and what knowledge he has &#8211; made for a great trek).</p>
<p>I fully support the concepts of cleaning and food being available.  The sticks I liked coming from my porter (on a subcontract basis) as it reminds me of him.  They could set up a stall at both ends but still give porters the chance of making a few extra dollars (expecially for Ron who spend 2 hours getting thorugh customs with all of his &#8211; I guess they thought he was from a logging company doing a recon mission).</p>
<p>As for comforts &#8211; no way.  I did this trek to experience the hardship, so no creature comforts for the trekkers (and I was sick for 3 days).  For the locals different story, if we can provide better building material, medicine etc through grants or charity runs then that is great and should be done &#8211; I might even have another go &#8211; what am I saying!</p>
<p>Another thought is the charitable fund being set up &#8211; a great idea.  I wanted to give my boots but needed them to get home.  If there was some way that I could buy something before I left and give it to my porter, his family etc then that would be acceptable (in this way it is still fresh in your mind) otherwise $$ to a charity is the go.</p>
<p>Col Grace &#8211; 910A</p>
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		<title>By: Angus McDonald</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-1290</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/#comment-1290</guid>
		<description>Dear Charlie,
I did AK47 in August 2006 with Peter Davis and thoroughly enjoyed the exprience.
I have skimmed most of the replies you have had to your quest and they have either outstripped my meagre ideas or already coverred them.

All I can ADD is we purchase other carving beside walking poles. Small traditional hard wooden things to make carrying home and passing customs easy.

I like the idea of CD&#039;s of singing of porters or villaager or both. 

I ask if some viallagers could give treckers talks at night about their local customs, beliefs and culture as long as that is acceptable to them.

Good luck in your quest for realistic and sensible support for the villagers and people along the Track.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Charlie,<br />
I did AK47 in August 2006 with Peter Davis and thoroughly enjoyed the exprience.<br />
I have skimmed most of the replies you have had to your quest and they have either outstripped my meagre ideas or already coverred them.</p>
<p>All I can ADD is we purchase other carving beside walking poles. Small traditional hard wooden things to make carrying home and passing customs easy.</p>
<p>I like the idea of CD&#8217;s of singing of porters or villaager or both. </p>
<p>I ask if some viallagers could give treckers talks at night about their local customs, beliefs and culture as long as that is acceptable to them.</p>
<p>Good luck in your quest for realistic and sensible support for the villagers and people along the Track.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Beattie</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-1146</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Beattie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/#comment-1146</guid>
		<description>Charlie,

Just back from 910A-some interesting developments along track re subject of Blog:

Isurava. A New toilet block (3 toilets) has been constructed since Anzac Day (they were not there on the 22nd of April) with excellent wooden (obviously constructed by a qualified carpenter) outer protection and with lockable doors. Would do credit to any outdoor dunny here in Australia-a real doable model for the other camp sites.

Efogi 1. Evonne agreed after a short discussion with me that she would establish a clothes drying service with the other women of the village. $5k for shirt, $5K for trousers, $2K for socks and $5K for boots. I believe Chad&#039;s trek were first to use the service (AK910 K to O) as they arrived a couple of days after us. I understand Evonne did a roaring trade and we now need to let the other trek leaders know about the service-unfortunately for we of 910A we continued on to Naduri saturated.

We had so many carved sticks done for us (usually done by Victor at Kovello- who was subcontracted by the other porters (they made $10K to $20K and he made $20 -30K per stick) the plane looked like a forestry vehicle. Everyone was  happy.

Thoughts from the blog turned into positive action for the benefit of the Koiari Villages along the track.

Regards,

Ron Beattie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie,</p>
<p>Just back from 910A-some interesting developments along track re subject of Blog:</p>
<p>Isurava. A New toilet block (3 toilets) has been constructed since Anzac Day (they were not there on the 22nd of April) with excellent wooden (obviously constructed by a qualified carpenter) outer protection and with lockable doors. Would do credit to any outdoor dunny here in Australia-a real doable model for the other camp sites.</p>
<p>Efogi 1. Evonne agreed after a short discussion with me that she would establish a clothes drying service with the other women of the village. $5k for shirt, $5K for trousers, $2K for socks and $5K for boots. I believe Chad&#8217;s trek were first to use the service (AK910 K to O) as they arrived a couple of days after us. I understand Evonne did a roaring trade and we now need to let the other trek leaders know about the service-unfortunately for we of 910A we continued on to Naduri saturated.</p>
<p>We had so many carved sticks done for us (usually done by Victor at Kovello- who was subcontracted by the other porters (they made $10K to $20K and he made $20 -30K per stick) the plane looked like a forestry vehicle. Everyone was  happy.</p>
<p>Thoughts from the blog turned into positive action for the benefit of the Koiari Villages along the track.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Ron Beattie</p>
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		<title>By: Aileen Elliott</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-1008</link>
		<dc:creator>Aileen Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/#comment-1008</guid>
		<description>Hi Charlie,
The thing that impressed me along the track was the cleanliness of the villages and the genuiness of the people.  This needs to be preserved.  We should not be forcing our culture on these people.  What would they like to do - have they been consulted. 
 
I agree that the hot shower at Myola was a highlight - and would appear to be a simple thing to provide.  I agree washing clothes at the end of the day adds to the overall challenge of the trek.  Maybe trekkers could pay the villagers to maintain the fires in the drying huts to ensure their clothes are dry to put on each morning.
The fruit and the bread that was also provided at some villages was a welcome addition to our diet and I would pay for similiar items along the track.

I am a firm believer in maintaining the pristine nature of the forests.  The big thing for governments world wide is carbon emissions.  We should be paying these villagers to be caretakers of the forests.  It would be criminal if roads are built and the forests logged.  However, the people / country has to have an income.  We cannot destroy our own forests on one hand and then complain if this happens in PNG.  The solution is for us to pay to maintain the pristine wilderness.
Regards
Aileen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Charlie,<br />
The thing that impressed me along the track was the cleanliness of the villages and the genuiness of the people.  This needs to be preserved.  We should not be forcing our culture on these people.  What would they like to do &#8211; have they been consulted. </p>
<p>I agree that the hot shower at Myola was a highlight &#8211; and would appear to be a simple thing to provide.  I agree washing clothes at the end of the day adds to the overall challenge of the trek.  Maybe trekkers could pay the villagers to maintain the fires in the drying huts to ensure their clothes are dry to put on each morning.<br />
The fruit and the bread that was also provided at some villages was a welcome addition to our diet and I would pay for similiar items along the track.</p>
<p>I am a firm believer in maintaining the pristine nature of the forests.  The big thing for governments world wide is carbon emissions.  We should be paying these villagers to be caretakers of the forests.  It would be criminal if roads are built and the forests logged.  However, the people / country has to have an income.  We cannot destroy our own forests on one hand and then complain if this happens in PNG.  The solution is for us to pay to maintain the pristine wilderness.<br />
Regards<br />
Aileen</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Benson</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-974</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 00:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/#comment-974</guid>
		<description>Hi Charlie,

It is disappointing the government is paying $50,000 to conduct a livelihood study when so much knowledge is already available to them via trek operators and trekkers.

When I walked the track I concurred with your thinking of giving prioity to educating the young.

Back to the matter at hand.

No, I would not pay to have my clothes washed and dried.  I would prefer to do this task myself.

Yes, I would buy scones and coffee on the track.

I would buy some momentos along the track.  Particulary items that identified the village.  But I fear this may cause them to persue commericalism.

Th facilities at the villages should be improved.  I liked the idea of a warm shower at Myola.  The toilets could be improved and a few signs could be posted.

Keep up the good work Charlie.

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Charlie,</p>
<p>It is disappointing the government is paying $50,000 to conduct a livelihood study when so much knowledge is already available to them via trek operators and trekkers.</p>
<p>When I walked the track I concurred with your thinking of giving prioity to educating the young.</p>
<p>Back to the matter at hand.</p>
<p>No, I would not pay to have my clothes washed and dried.  I would prefer to do this task myself.</p>
<p>Yes, I would buy scones and coffee on the track.</p>
<p>I would buy some momentos along the track.  Particulary items that identified the village.  But I fear this may cause them to persue commericalism.</p>
<p>Th facilities at the villages should be improved.  I liked the idea of a warm shower at Myola.  The toilets could be improved and a few signs could be posted.</p>
<p>Keep up the good work Charlie.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Prescott</title>
		<link>http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/comment-page-2/#comment-952</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Prescott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kokodatreks.com/2009/06/05/kokoda-trail-livelihood-study/#comment-952</guid>
		<description>Dear Charlie

thanks for the opportunity to make some suggestions - this is a very worthwhile pursuit and a development issue not always easily understood or well appreciated. That said, Im no expert in rural livelihoods either but have been around long enough to have a couple of ideas which might be helpful.

the village laundry idea sounds like a good one to me. God knows how we craved clean clothes on the trail, but I just wonder how practical. If somebody&#039;s kit should go &#039;walkabout&#039;, this would be a major inconvenience for the trekker and probably a bloody big headache for the trek organiser (I just cant imagien you putting up with the bloody whinging that would go on !!!). Maybe this is unlikely to happen, but I guess there would need to be some one in the village responsible for both organising but also checking that everything returns.

the one that really jumps out for me was the hot shower we had at Myola creek. If an arrangement like this was set up in every village, some of us probably wouldnt want to come home. I reckon this is a winner - its low maintenance, it requires some initial set up and then just someone to light a fire and keep the 44g drum topped up - and most importantly would be in huge demand. This is almost a high return activity when you look at demand vs workload.

the fruit stalls along the trail are also a winner, atleast from the hikers perspective.

I like the point above about the carved walking poles at both ends of the trail - can I suggest though (as you know) these guys carve alot more than just walking poles, so I reckon a carvers market (maybe set up as a bit of a village cooperative) at each end, so that the village runs the market and the returns go back to the village - but of course the risk in coops is that the &#039;bigman&#039; may diddle the books

I also reckon some sort of welcoming ceremony performed by villages at either end (once youve completed the trail) would be a really emotional way to finish. And I also think there is probably more opportunities to promote PNG culture on the trail - like various cultural ceremonies or talks or even just getting a few of the trekkers to try beetle nut (that would be pretty funny actually)

I think there is a huge job creation opportunity for trek preservation / maintenace - I want to clarify though, I dont mean building handrails and escalators because clearly we want to maintain the &#039;pristineness&#039; of the trail - but rather what about simple things like trail signs (eg &#039;you are now at Kokoda Pass&#039;, &#039;25kms to Isurava&#039; or even some battleground signs explaining some of the history and context), the occasional bench seat, leaf hut and dunny probably wouldnt go astray along the trail either.

finally, its worth thinking of how to do this - in many countries things like this have been supported through microfinancing schemes ran by donors and NGOs - whereby small cash grants are given to set up a sustainable business (with alittle bit of business training thrown in) - this might be the way to go (I can probably track down some info on different approaches if you need it)

anway mate, hope this helps, thanks for the opportunity to comment and keep up the good work Charlie - god knows its needed.

best regards
Tony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Charlie</p>
<p>thanks for the opportunity to make some suggestions &#8211; this is a very worthwhile pursuit and a development issue not always easily understood or well appreciated. That said, Im no expert in rural livelihoods either but have been around long enough to have a couple of ideas which might be helpful.</p>
<p>the village laundry idea sounds like a good one to me. God knows how we craved clean clothes on the trail, but I just wonder how practical. If somebody&#8217;s kit should go &#8216;walkabout&#8217;, this would be a major inconvenience for the trekker and probably a bloody big headache for the trek organiser (I just cant imagien you putting up with the bloody whinging that would go on !!!). Maybe this is unlikely to happen, but I guess there would need to be some one in the village responsible for both organising but also checking that everything returns.</p>
<p>the one that really jumps out for me was the hot shower we had at Myola creek. If an arrangement like this was set up in every village, some of us probably wouldnt want to come home. I reckon this is a winner &#8211; its low maintenance, it requires some initial set up and then just someone to light a fire and keep the 44g drum topped up &#8211; and most importantly would be in huge demand. This is almost a high return activity when you look at demand vs workload.</p>
<p>the fruit stalls along the trail are also a winner, atleast from the hikers perspective.</p>
<p>I like the point above about the carved walking poles at both ends of the trail &#8211; can I suggest though (as you know) these guys carve alot more than just walking poles, so I reckon a carvers market (maybe set up as a bit of a village cooperative) at each end, so that the village runs the market and the returns go back to the village &#8211; but of course the risk in coops is that the &#8216;bigman&#8217; may diddle the books</p>
<p>I also reckon some sort of welcoming ceremony performed by villages at either end (once youve completed the trail) would be a really emotional way to finish. And I also think there is probably more opportunities to promote PNG culture on the trail &#8211; like various cultural ceremonies or talks or even just getting a few of the trekkers to try beetle nut (that would be pretty funny actually)</p>
<p>I think there is a huge job creation opportunity for trek preservation / maintenace &#8211; I want to clarify though, I dont mean building handrails and escalators because clearly we want to maintain the &#8216;pristineness&#8217; of the trail &#8211; but rather what about simple things like trail signs (eg &#8216;you are now at Kokoda Pass&#8217;, &#8217;25kms to Isurava&#8217; or even some battleground signs explaining some of the history and context), the occasional bench seat, leaf hut and dunny probably wouldnt go astray along the trail either.</p>
<p>finally, its worth thinking of how to do this &#8211; in many countries things like this have been supported through microfinancing schemes ran by donors and NGOs &#8211; whereby small cash grants are given to set up a sustainable business (with alittle bit of business training thrown in) &#8211; this might be the way to go (I can probably track down some info on different approaches if you need it)</p>
<p>anway mate, hope this helps, thanks for the opportunity to comment and keep up the good work Charlie &#8211; god knows its needed.</p>
<p>best regards<br />
Tony</p>
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